Childhood Trauma gaslighting to beware of: How to recognize invalidation

 Hello my friends. Today in my quest to heal, and help you heal, childhood trauma from narcissistic parent abuse, I'm going to expose gaslighting things people I call blind guides, say. I'm going to show you how to recognize invalidation openers in the first few words they say. Because it's not just narcissistic parents that cause us pain. We are re-traumatized every time someone pooh-poohs our experiences or toxically defends our parents' abuse. This gaslighting (denying our reality) can occur when we are children in the throes of abuse right up to our now, decades later. Here's how to know blind guides by what they say. 

Societal amnesia denied narcissistic parent abuse

This might have been the earliest gaslighting we childhood trauma survivors experienced. It was a collective blindness or societal amnesia that seemed not to see or ignore our parents' abusive, neglectful, endangering, abandonment, parentification, exploitation and dehumanizing invalidation. Family, church, school, social groups all turned a blind eye to the red flags we were putting out. The signs were there: flinch and fawn trauma responses, inappropriate shoes, ragged clothing, unkempt hair, tired or sick all the time, abnormal for everyone but us. I could see abuse in other children AS A CHILD. That's were the empath began. I just couldn't see it in me. 

"There's someone in my head but it's not me.
And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear.
You shout and no one seems to hear."

— Pink Floyd, Brain Damage

The Teflon clad Narcissist

Many times the "flying monkeys" don't just turn a blind eye. They close ranks around the narcissistic parents behavior. They shelter it behind bulletproof glass. They bubble wrap it to protect themselves from the narcissistic parents' rage.  This gaslights their child that their parents are invincible so why bother to say anything. Excuses will always be made.

• She loves you, she just doesn't know how to show it. 
• You  have to understand...
• Oh, c'mon it isn't that bad.
• You're just too sensitive. (compared to an insensitive, highly oversensitive narcissist)
• You have to forgive, because family...(trans. the victim must to all the work, again).
• Let bygones be bygones. Except the narcissist never lets anything go!

Shady Double indemnity  

Sometimes the blind guides go beyond just defending the narcissist. They alibi each other to  indemnify themselves from exposure. My parents divorced and married other narcissists. They would stand by the other parents' abuse, neglect and exploitation to shield their own mistreatment of me. One night I fell out of bed and broke my cheekbone. My irresponsible mother just sent me to school with a goose egg on my face, where I was sent home to have it x-rayed (very often strangers care more about neglected kids than their parents do). She never did take me to a doctor and then my dad, weeks later, finally came around and thought it should be examined. He worked in a hospital but took me in the "back door" to have a friend take the x-ray. My husband identified this as secondhand neglect and him covering for his own failed duty of care. He knew a doctor would say, as even the x-ray tech said "why wasn't this looked at immediately?" Exposing my mom would expose him. 

The silence of the sisterhood

I've taken parallels to the movie "Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood" before. When Sidda Lee writes her play, she inadvertently exposes the dysfunctional family dynamic to the world. What was meant as a coming of age in rural Louisiana, the reporter sees as Vivi and Shep being

"the tap-dancing child abuser of a mother and an absent emotionally distant father."

Sometimes outsiders see more clearly than we see ourselves. Sidda may have subconsciously been wanting it seen. Her play opened a can of childhood trauma worms. This may have been her banging on the door of collective amnesia. And then blind guides who say things like

• You don't know the full story. (as if that will "explain away" abuse)
• Times were different then. (but abuse was still abuse)
• I don't remember much. (because you were drunk, high, or didn't care)
• It's how we did things then (knowing that they were neglecting their own kids too)

"We're not blaming them for letting it happen, we're blaming them for pretending it never happened."

Song of Sidda Lee 

And then she calls out her mother Vivi for the narcissistic mother she is, regardless of her own traumas. Sidda is addressing what all childhood trauma survivors wish they could say to and of the narcissistic parent.

"I'm sick of this whole center of the universe, holier than thou, nothing is ever enough. Oh how I've suffered, nobody understands me.  Somebody fix me a drink and hand me a Nembutol, worn out Scarlett O'Hara... thang!"

We get our parents suffered but that was no excuse for taking it out on us. And perpetuating it the cycle. But that's what narcissistic parents do. They DARVO (deny, attack, reverse victim offender) on their kids! And Sidda proves to the Ya-Ya Sisterhood their own complacent complicity, when she says 

"She should have just stayed gone. But then y'all dragged her ass back here again and all she did was drink until we all went away! I mean Y'all should know, since you were the ones mixing the drinks!

The sweet southern DARVO 

Once all is revealed about Vivi's backstory, the Ya Yas still make it all about the narcissistic mother. DARVO strikes again. Deny, attack, reverse victim offender. The priest gave her the Milltown, that  why she was abusive and locked up in an institution. Shep was to blame, the war, her parents, everyone but herself. 

But she was always endangering them, making Sidda take care for the little kids when they were sick. Driving off in the night with the kids, drunk off her butt. Deserting them for a lost weekend in a hotel. We're supposed to feel so sorry for the poor put-upon parent. What mother wouldn't run off with all that burden. Except she WASN'T burdened. She couldn't even feed the kids sober. Vivi was always so far up herself that he kids came a distant second. She resented her kids. And there reveals the narcissist. She very probably would have been like that if her childhood was perfect. I know because my parents, by their own admission, were cared for and loved. 

Those passive-aggressive enablers

And let's not forget the enabler dad Shep, who the reporter accurately calls out as absent, abandoning, ignoring. Where was he when the kids were ill? "Hidden out in a duck blind clutching a bottle of Maker's Mark." Watching "helplessly, as his kids being abused. Feeling sorry for himself. And making his kids feel sorry for him too, as if HE is the abused one. That's secondhand abuse. But yet he's called the patient saint with his kindly hand-patting "bebe" schtick. Well, enabler men are more often seen as a figure of pathos than a co-participant in the abuse. We fail to see their feet of clay. Sidda is talking to them all when she blasts out:

 "You all may have your little Ya-Ya scars, but that was nothing to what she did to me!"

"It wasn't so much what this 'collective blindness' toward abuse said, but what it DID NOT say. To a child, that silence isn't neutral; it is permission and social approval." --Marilisa

"La, la, la we don't want to hear you"

But they weren't clueless or helpless, so I guess amnesia's the wrong word. Blind guides chose not to see. I was brain damaged or they were. We didn't act like normal kids. It was obvious to all that our lives were so different than kids around us. Yet no one said anything. This group gaslighting convinced me that although no one else experienced, it was okay for me to. If anyone did address it, it was in  shaming, diminishing sorts of ways. 

• Your mom has always been difficult (and this helps a child how?)
• "She's hurtin' too, bebe." (she sure is hurtin' me!)
• Your dad just hasn't grown up yet (!?) (making excuses, blame-shifting)
• They mean well, they're just immature. (weaponized incompetence) 
• They're doing their best. (invalidation and gaslighting)
• Every family has difficulties. (whitewashing abuse)
• Hurt people hurt people. (No they don't. Narcissists hurt people.)
• We didn't know better. (sad Pikachu face)
• Rise above (as in get over it.)
• Two wrong don't make a right. (the gaslighting in this is so rife it's getting its own section.)

"If telling what happened is bad,
what happened must be pretty bad." --Marilisa

Twisted double back gaslighting

Where blind guides really shine is when they weaponize aphorisms that apply to the perpetrator AGAINST the victim. "Two wrongs don't make a right" means that even if the narcissistic parent was abused, this is no excuse to abuse his own children. But they deviously flip it back on the child, to make it look like her "going no contact" or calling out the abuse is wronging the parent. That it is somehow  "seeking vengeance." Wrong. It's the narcissist's spiteful, vengeful, malice we are calling out. We went no contact because she cut ties and responsibilities to us as children. 

Rewrite the lyrics

Here's the B-side to our narcissistic parents' groove-worn song and dance. Here are some new songs to play.

• Hear the gaslighting broken record. Hear the excuses, the DARVO, the flipped scripts for what they are. 
• Change the record. Instead of letting our narcissistic parents and their blind guides spin the tunes, let's pick a new one. Let's begin, like Sidda, calling abuse what it is. 
• Be the change. Sadly, our parents didn't give us what we needed. So we must give it to ourselves. We need permission to be angry and grieve our childhoods.  

Blanket training is baby gaslighting: How narcissistic bully parents Ferberize and groom babies to expect abuse

 

Hello my friends. Today in our quest to heal childhood trauma from narcissistic parent abuse, I'm exploring some abusive practices we don't talk enough about. I'm going to show how they create the very trauma that we spend the rest of our lives struggling with. I'm talking about blanket training, Ferberizing, "cry it out", locking children in rooms, and other need or want shaming techniques. These punishments are baby gaslighting and grooming and they have disastrous affects. 

Need shaming techniques

The Origins: To Train Up a Child

The modern concept of blanket training was popularized by Michael and Debi Pearl in their 1994 book, To Train Up a Child.

• The Method: The Pearls instructed parents to place an infant (as young as six months) on a blanket with a few toys. If the child attempted to move off the blanket, the parent was told to "train" them back using a "rod"—typically a flexible ruler or a plastic plumbing tube—to strike the child.

• The Goal: The explicitly stated goal was to achieve "instant, unquestioning obedience" and to "break the child's will" before they were old enough to reason.

• Expansion: The method was further amplified through the Institute in Basic Life Principles (IBLP), an organization that heavily influenced large homeschooling families like Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar of "19 Kids and Counting" reality TV fame. 

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Historical Precedents

While the Pearls "branded" the term in the 90s, the logic behind it draws from two earlier historical shifts:

1. The 19th-Century Industrial Model: In the mid-1800s, as mothers began working in factories, parenting manuals (like those by Dr. Luther Emmett Holt) began emphasizing strict schedules and "crying it out". The idea was to make babies "convenient" for a working adult's schedule.

2. Anti-Coddling Movement (1920s): Behaviorists like John Watson argued that parents should treat children like young adults—avoiding hugging or kissing—to prevent them from becoming "weak" or "spoiled." Blanket training is a modern, more extreme evolution of this "anti-coddling" philosophy.

Ferberizing (The "Check and Console" Method)

While "blanket training" is about physical confinement during the day, Ferberizing is a popular behavioral sleep training technique focused on the night. It was developed by Dr. Richard Ferber, founder of the Pediatric Sleep Disorders Center at Children's Hospital Boston.

• The Method: Often called "graduated extinction," this involves putting a baby to bed while they are still awake and leaving the room. If the baby cries, the parent waits for a specific, increasing interval of time (e.g., 5 minutes, then 10, then 15) before returning to the room to provide brief comfort without picking the baby up.

• The Intent: The goal is to teach the child "self-soothing"—the ability to fall asleep and return to sleep without parental intervention.

• The Controversy: Critics, particularly those in the attachment parenting and trauma-informed communities, argue that infants do not actually "self-soothe" (a complex neurological skill). Instead, they may experience "learned helplessness." From a trauma perspective, the baby stops crying not because they are calm, but because they have learned that their distress signals will not be answered—a core component of the "baby gaslighting." 

Baby gaslighting

As a parent and grandparent, (I'm Omi, grandma, in Dutch) these practices are abhorrent to me. But it took me till Omi-hood to get why they were wrong for ME. That's how the childhood trauma brain processes parent cruelty, as "good enough for who it's for." And THAT is how it starts, by deceiving kids into thinking normal needs are shameful, evil, selfish. It is completely anathema to God's commands to love children. 

Triggering but also eye-opening

And my dear ones, this is so triggering. I'm writing this with my jaws clamped firmly shut to keep the rage I have for these in check. Like I've said before, words don't fail me, but nice ones do. And part of that anger is aimed at how insidious these sadistic ideas are. They have leaked into mainstream parent wisdom like poison in the river. I realize that I have done "lite" versions of them, believing I was obeying some God mandated thing.

The sick, twisted legacy 

I confess to spanking my first three children as part of what I believed to be God's will. I was also under the influence of my narcissistically abusive parents who spanked and slapped me. The difference is, that at least, I made it clear to my kids why I spanked them. Whereas I never knew why I was getting hit. And it was made more complicated by my parents and stepparents who TOLD me I should spank my kids and THEN told my children it was wrong and THEN lied and said they never hit  me. I never spanked because "it was good enough for me so it's good enough for you." I spanked because my parents said I was disobeying God if I didn't. I'm not justifying why I did it. Just showing the horrible legacy. 

"Train up a child" trauma informed explanation

The Bible says "train up a child in the way that he should go and he won't depart from it." What is implied is "train up a child in ANY WAY and she won't depart from it." Lead a child astray and she'll follow trustingly because you are her parent. Put a millstone around her neck and she'll jump over the cliff because daddy told her to. Make yourself a god to her, deceive, betray, enslave, invalidate, gaslight, abuse, neglect, exploit, parentify, endanger, abandon her and she'll spend the rest of her life defending you and trying to figure out what SHE did wrong. We are well and truly groomed, gaslighted and Ferberized to comply. 

Spare the rod, spoil the child,  no seriously

I'm wondering if maybe God was saying, "no I really mean, spare the rod." I don't want you hitting animals let alone kids. It certainly fits more with this image of a loving God. Or is it just more narcissist gaslighting? The love and mercy is for me while the hellfire and brimstone is for thee. That certainly would fit their hypocritical, self-righteous double standards. But it's all wrong, says God. Children need love, hugs, tickles and giggles. 

Why else have kids if not to love them?

Why have your "19 Kids and Counting" if you just plan to subjugate them? Even in the "old days" when people had big families, supposedly to "run the farm" or whatever. If you had fewer kids, you'd have fewer mouths to feed. Do the math. Children are supposed to bring joy by who they are not what they provide. Mmmhmm, there it is. Narcissistic parents believe a lot of hogwash. 

• They own their kids. (they don't)
• It's the child's job to do provide narcissistic supply for them. (it's  not)
• They owe nothing, the kid owes everything. (wrong, wrong)
• The narcissist thinks it's all about them. But it's not. That's just narcissistic fantasy  

Creepy, destabilizing narcissistic parent abuse we don't discuss enough

Hello my friends. In my path to heal childhood trauma from narcissistic parent abuse I'm going to explore creepy, destabilizing narcissistic parent abuse we don't discuss enough. I so appreciate the YouTube vloggers like Jerry Wise, Dr. Ramani, Patrick Teahan and Danish Bashir who aren't afraid to call this abuse what it is. 

Parent enmeshment

An enmeshed parent is one who crashes boundaries and blurs the lines of demarcation between herself and her child. Pretty much all narcissistic parents are also enmeshed in their kids. 

• possessive
• sees the child as extension of herself, like an arm
• adopts awkward, fake childish personas, says she's 
• one of the gang 
• more like sister than parent
• "just a big kid"
• thinks child should include her in everything 
• humiliates child (my mom told everyone when I began growing pubic hair)
• bitterly jealous of anyone else
• clingy, needy, emotional vampire
• attention-seeking, pity party thrower
• uses child as therapist, partner
• drama mama
• has few friends 

"An enmeshed narcissistic parent is the OG 'smother mother.'"

Controlling, Haughty and Intrusiveness

This is the arrogant, entitled, remorseless part of the enmeshed narcissistic parent 

• sees child as property
• thinks he has proprietary rights over child
• thinks she has buy in or veto power
• butts into private conversations
• bossy
• boundary crashing (my dad used to come right into the bathroom when I was using it)
• controls things she has no right to (think Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar)
• gives unsolicited advice 
• thinks she knows everything
• feels entitled to a say on things that aren't her business
• expects to be consulted 
• hijacks autonomy

Infantilizes, parentifies and spousifies

• overprotective in public, neglectful in private
• hovers, keeps too close tabs on child
• leverages normal things like basic care to guilt child
• treats child more like partner than partner
• gaslights child that he's too feeble to think for himself
• won't let child do things other kids do 
• says it's for his own good when its for hers
• has inappropriate age relationships
• flirts with child, wants to "cuddle" teen
• exclusive with (golden) or excludes(scapegoat)

Underhanded and devious

This is the manifestation of the sneaky deceit, greed plus pathological jealousy of enmeshed narcissists

• snoops, is nosy
• goes through child's possessions ( I caught my mother rifling through  my purse). 
• finds reasons to enter child's room without permission
• eavesdrops
• interrogates
• monitors phone
• puts tracker on kids
• trespasses on privacy (my mother barged into my husband's and my bedroom one morning)
• neurotic and paranoid
• often steals from child
• lies to and about child

Generally weird behavior of narcissist parents

• whispers, talks behind hand to child in front of others
• makes child keep secrets 
• tells child's secrets 
• makes holy day obligation about her birthday
• pouts and sulks 
• gossips, starts and spreads rumors
• loudly interrupts in gatherings
• embarrasses child at special events for attention
• calls attention to herself in odd ways
• talks about private parts 
• has inordinate obsession with being "mother" as if she's the only one
• dominates at gatherings
• must be soothed, humored and also admired 

Expanded examples of creepy behavior 
 

• The "Shadow" Presence: They follow the child around the room, standing just a bit too close, effectively preventing any private or independent conversation with other guests.

• The "Upstaging Reset": If the attention shifts to someone else’s achievement, they suddenly have a physical ailment or a "crisis" that requires everyone to stop and tend to them. They start a fight or cry loudly. 

• The "Revival preacher" move: My mother is known for shouting "AMEN!" or "HALLELUJAH" at sedate church gatherings, family events and even funerals! While she frames it as religious fervor, it’s a calculated disruption that makes her appear "holier" than everyone else while centering the room's attention on her.

• Inappropriate "Over-Sharing": They bring up deeply personal or embarrassing childhood stories as a way to "re-infantilize" you in front of your peers or spouse. She says "it's okay, I'm your mother." (it's not). 

• The Seductive attention grab: My mom describes her inappropriate intimate details and genital ailments at every family gathering, especially to men. It serves to anger her husband, embarrass her son-in-law and grandkids and make me feel foolish. This is triangulation (pitting people against each other) and emotional grooming, weaponizing private things for shock value, so everyone's kept off balance.  

• The "Micro-Manager" Guest: Even if it’s not their home, they start directing traffic, telling people where to sit, or critiquing the host’s food to establish themselves as the "authority" in the room. My mother-in-law would make rude comments about my cooking, my weight or my hair. She would make her son "choose" between desserts I'd made and she'd made to prove his loyalty. 

• The "Costume Clown Control": My mother wears what are obviously nightgowns in public, to her great-granddaughter's baptism, to church and extended family events. Other narcissistic parents have worn wedding dresses to their kids' weddings. This gets narcissistic supply in several ways.  

  

  
  

• • The "Main Character" Syndrome: By wearing a nightgown, she ensures that the conversation focuses on her not the event or the child. If she can't be the hottest, she'll be the most pathetic. 

  • Weaponized Incompetence: If called out, she can crybully and play the "vulnerable" card or act like she’s being bullied for her style, when in reality, it’s passive-aggressive and calculated move to keep everyone on edge.

  • Social Sabotage: It creates a sense of "second-hand embarrassment" for the family, who is made to feel somehow responsible, which is a powerful way for a narcissist to maintain control over you. 

Ready to dive deeper? If these examples resonated with you, I highly recommend checking out these experts who specialize in narcissistic enmeshment and recovery:

• • Dr. Ramani Durvasula: The gold standard for understanding narcissistic personality types.

  • Patrick Teahan, LICSW: Incredible for seeing "role-play" examples of how to set boundaries with toxic parents.

  • Jerry Wise Relationship Systems: Deep dives into family systems and how to "self-differentiate" from an enmeshed family.

  • Danish Bashir: Offers very practical, direct advice on the "no contact" or "low contact" journey.

   

  Note: This post is based on personal experience and research into narcissistic dynamics. I am a writer and educator, not a licensed therapist. If you are in a crisis or need professional guidance, please reach out to a mental health professional.

   

 

Worst part for women with childhood trauma from narcissistic parent abuse

 Hello my friends. Today on the path to healing childhood trauma from narcissistic parent abuse, I'm reflecting on a post by YouTube trauma recovery specialist Jerry Wise. He just spoke right to my heart, addressing the unique challenges for women who suffered at the hands of  narcissistic parents. I'm living that struggle and here are some of the most difficult parts of healing. 

Society normalizes subjugation and domestication of girls like pack animals

As kids, us daughters of narcissistic parents, who are now in our 50s, 60s and up, got the lion's share of the trauma. Everywhere, the world was oriented toward subjugating women in the caregiver, nurturer, doer, servant role. Many of us were parenting our parents and their other children when we were kids ourselves. This parentification left of with gaping holes in our self-care skills and far too much FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) that was never ours. But no one called it abuse. It was just what a good girl did. And then if you, like me had narcissistic parents who divorced and married other narcissists (funny how like attracts like), you were inundated with demands. 

Chore differential in boys and girls

I was doing adult heavy housework before puberty. I used to think I just had a lot of chores. Now I see that I did all the chores while my parents and stepparents laid around. Literally. I did everything my stepmother didn't want to do, which was everything. I was supporting my mom's new family. And I raised their kids while doing it, including co-sleeping with their babies and getting up at night with them. On top of schoolwork. And none of the kids did anything. Even in normal homes, girls were the ones who set the table, prepared and served meals, cleared the table, did the dishes, swept and tidied up. While the son took out one measly bag of trash. I did all that plus I ironed, folded clothes, washed windows, mopped the floor on my hands and knees, cleaned the bathroom, vacuumed, dusted, made lunches for everyone, hung the clothes on the line (in winter, I had to scale snowbanks), put the clothes away, changed diapers, babysat for free. While my dad's sons mowed the lawn badly once in awhile. And took turns with that one task. 

Girls had to juggle it all

On top of all those chores, I kept up with my schoolwork while my brothers slacked off. Sometimes I'd be up till 10 finishing homework because I had so many other duties and those had to come first. I started in right after school and was still finishing up when everyone was parked in front of the TV. Then I was back up at 5. I why it was so crucial I mop twice a week. My parents never cleaned. And they didn't provide resources that they'd surely have had if it was them doing it. And girls did better in school than boys despite being considered only fit for caregiving jobs. Because boys had the luxury of refusing to do homework, whining how boring it was, being the class ass, while girls had to be good do-bees, knuckle under and smile benevolently at those rascally boys. 

Boys will be boys but girls must be women

Bad behavior was expected of men, because "boys will be boys." But we girls had to be mature, functional adults when we were only kids. We had to be demur, "ladylike" polite, mannerly, sedate, quiet, small, biddable, obedient, respectful. Boys could be and were rude, noisy, rowdy, trouble-makers, hell-raisers, delinquents, dropouts. While girls must get a good education they could never use. They must let boys get aways with murder while parents smiled fondly. We carried the can and did all the  heavy lifting so they could do as they wanted. 

Our Lady of Perpetual Help

I am very empathetic, too empathetic and yes, that's a thing. You can care too much about others and not enough about yourself. And I wouldn't be so obsessively empathetic if I hadn't be indoctrinated to. I was expected to endure teasing, ridicule, sexual harassment, public humiliation, attacks, ambushes, being pilloried, all with patient saintly smile. By narcissistic adults who acted like spoiled brats. I was expected to nurture like some kind of mother goddess when I was just a child. My siblings used and abused their elders and I cleaned up after them. I did their work for them. 

Careers and hobbies were separate and unequal

Even the jobs we were pushed into were the menial chore type that boys considered beneath them. We were the assistants, secretaries, nurses, waitresses, babysitters. We carried the mental load so they could hang out and drink beer. They grilled the burgers while we prepared, served, organized and cleaned up everything else. And kept the children occupied too. Men still do the easy once a week yard work while we carry all the daily. Boys made models, we did simulated chores and played baby dolls. 

Not exaggerating but wish I was

I wish this was just me being oversensitive, like my dad said I was. Truth is, life for me and many girls I knew, was all this and worse. I knew of several girls who purposely got pregnant just to get out of the house and have their own baby to take care of instead of having to take care of everyone else's. We should have been the ones BEING taken care of as kids. Instead our childhood's were hijacked. We were coerced into adult roles before we even got our periods. 

Thank you to the men who get it

I am not saying boys didn't have their own struggles. I know, I'm a mom of sons. But when I was young, it was very out of balance. And I so appreciate Jerry Wise getting articulating this. My husband and sons get it too. But sadly, all too often you hear from proponents of a certain political party in red hats that we're just "playing the woman card." Or that we're crybullies. That feminism is some kind of disease. There wouldn't be feminists if we'd been treated fairly. And buddy, you have clue about how unfair it was. You were the one screwing around throwing spitballs in class while I was trying to stay awake and pay attention. You were the one watching cartoons while I did the housework. You were the one heckling me for being "straight-laced." You had no idea what my life was like. So don't play that Trump card with me. 

And the worst part was that it was all just normal and expected. It took me till 61 to see that it was abuse. 

Boundary setting is risky for children of abusive narcissistic parents

Hello my friends. Today I'm taking a "part two" look at why advice to set boundaries doesn't work with narcissists. I'm exploring how it's actually risky, especially for children of abusive narcissistic parents. And maybe even everyone. I'll explore how boundary setting is a flawed, contradiction in terms. 

Boundary setting advice is trite and pointless

So you're in therapy and you tell some outrageous behavior your parent did. And what's the first thing she pops out with? "You need to set boundaries." (often said in a smarmy "duh" way). They often say this in such a way that assumes you are failing to set boundaries. So victim shaming. And they also say it like you know how to do it, you're just choosing not to. But they don't even know what boundaries look like with normal people, let alone with narcissists or (heaven help us) narcissistic parents. 

What does boundary setting mean?

They can't tell you, these advice-givers. Because the definitions are vague at best. I kind of broke AI when I asked her to explain how to set boundaries with narcissistic parents. She kept looping back to base. She was not programmed to give details, just repeat cliches. And that's because real-life folks can't either. 

Boundary setting is placeholder advice

It's what people say when they don't know what else to say but want to dispense advice. It's a mild form of toxic positivity. And also gaslighting because it denies the reality of boundary setting as complicated, situational, user-defined, fluid and very often downright impossible or counterintuitive. 

Who sets and who observes the boundaries?

Here's where it gets really Star Trekkie. The idea is that you define for yourself what you will and won't put up with. Then you determine what you will do if you are forced to. Then you communicate it. You don't broadcast it. You just tell the affected parties. You don't tell others what to do only what you will do if they violate your boundaries. Which assumes they will because why else would you be telling them? In which case, plan on having to vigilantly patrol them solo. (exhausted yet, I am!)

Boundary setting is pointless

People who respect you don't need boundaries set around them and people who don't won't respect your boundaries any more than they respect you. For those who do, no explanation is needed, for those who need it, no explanation will do. Setting boundaries around invaders is an exercise in futility and an exhausting, frustrating waste of your bandwidth. 

Note: "You don't build fences unless someone else is trespassing."

Do we really need to have this conversation?

So just as boundary setting defines explanation, it only works in theory. Narcissist DON'T respect you which is why you need to build fences to protect yourself in the first place. And furthermore, the stuff you're erecting boundaries around is just common sense stuff that should be observed in the first place. Do you really need to tell someone that you don't like it when they scream at you, that you won't tolerate it and if they do, you'll have to walk away? 

Is boundary setting just issuing ultimatums? 

Yeah, kind of. You wouldn't need to "set boundaries" if your space wasn't being invaded. You only build fences where someone trespasses. And so it's a bit ridiculous to say that you aren't trying to control someone else's behavior. The entire point of the exercise is to navigate around people and situations that are threatening us. I'm not saying it's wrong to, but let's be honest about why we are. Usually, a selfish, demanding narcissistic person is trampling our rights and we're trying to get them to stop. But then that leads to other problems for us. 

Boundary setting puts all the work on you 

So the narcissist treats you badly. He calls you at all hours and disturbs your sleep. But you can't make him stop. You can only control you. So you put up walls (boundaries) to protect yourself. You say "I won't answer calls after 9 pm. Which he ignore and keeps calling. So you keep amending your behavior in hopes of forcing a change in his. You build taller walls. You turn the phone off. But then you miss calls you need to get.  And he still keeps trampling. And then finally you get tired and give in. You take his calls. And he gets what he wants and his behavior never changes. Because there's a secret flaw with boundaries that no one tells you. 

Communicating boundaries spikes their guns

Setting terms of engagement with a narcissist is like a kitten making a peace treaty with a polar bear. You saying  what you want or don't want just feeds them ammunition to hurt you with. Narcissists see transparency as weakness and boundaries as challenges. The thing you say you don't like is the thing they will go out of their way to do. Don't show your hand. It's not safe. Keep your boundaries if you set them, in your head. Don't warn them. Just do whatever it is you've pre-determined to do with no explanation. Don't JADE (justify, answer back, defend or explain). 

Boundary setting hurts you more than them

Again, not saying we don't need to set them but let's be realistic about how boundaries impact us. We spend all our energy trying to outmaneuver the arrogant boundary crosser. We do all kinds of things to "stay safe" and avoid him. We change things about ourselves that we shouldn't. We give up things we want and need. We leave the house to work at the library which totally disrupts our day. We walk with the kids in the rain to the playground because he's making home a living hell. And our car is down and he won't pay to have it fixed. And we don't get it repaired because we don't want him to punish us through our children. Well sounds to me like what we were already doing for the narcissist and what caused us to have to set the damn boundaries in the first place! It's like the parent who grounds the child and then realizes she just effectively grounded herself. 

And these are only the pitfalls of setting boundaries as an adult. Children have to inkling of how to set them around enmeshed narcissistic parent behavior. Or that they even should or could. We are programmed to only to serve their purposes. We function as possessions. It would never cross out minds to question their boundary crossing, no matter how egregious. Our boundaries would as useful as a paper hat in a nuclear war. 

Why setting boundaries is bad advice to give narcissistic abuse survivors

Hello my friends. Today I was listening to my girl, Dr. Ramani and she addressed the very thing I'd just been wrestling with in my quest to heal childhood trauma from narcissistic parent abuse: why setting boundaries is bad advice to give narcissistic abuse survivors. 

Boundary setting only works with respectful people

You don't have to tell respectful people to respect your space. So advice to set boundaries only works with people who don't need boundaries set with them.  Boundaries with narcissists are about as useful as a parasol in a hurricane. And definitely pointless against narcissistic parent abuse. Narcissistic parents crash boundaries all the time by enmeshing, invading privacy, demanding things they don't deserve, butting in where they don't belong, taking what's not theirs, not observing limits, usurping power, taking advantage, taking without giving, breaking promises, etc. 

Boundary setting with narcissists is a logical fallacy 

Telling someone to just set boundaries with a narcissist is a contradiction in terms. Narcissistic abuse is often the reason the victim needs to set them in the first place. And boundaries aren't things you can tell someone else to respect, certainly not someone who has been consistently ignoring your basic rights to start with. They are borders you place around yourself. But you are the one who has to protect them. And if the person you're setting them with won't observe them, it would be like building a fence of marshmallows around an angry bull. 

Narcissists hold others in contempt

So they also hold your boundaries in contempt as well as your needs, wants, feelings, ideas and self. They are haughty, vain and hypocritical. You can see it in their sneering faces and hear it dripping form their snide, scoffing belittlement. There are two sets of rules for you and them. Narcissistic parents do the very things they punish you for. They invalidate you and mock your principles. They tear you down. So if you set boundaries, they would just dismiss you and laugh in your face. They would take your pretty parasol, smash it and throw the pieces at you. 

Narcissists dictate terms or think they do

Especially narcissistic parents who believe everything their child does must pass the parent's rigorous judgment. The child must endure the parent's scathing criticism and vicious remarks which the parent himself would wither under. But the parent doesn't hold his own actions to account. And woe be to anyone who take HIM to task. So a narcissist will only respect boundaries he deems worthy and since he doesn't deem anyone but himself worthy, he tramples down everyone else. 

Narcissists are crybullies

While insensitively disrespecting everyone else and riding herd over their turf, he is oversensitive around his own fragile ego. He is a crybully who treats people abominably then DARVOs (deny, attack, reverse victim offender) and makes himself out to be the poor, put upon victim. He targets the person he is bullying as bullying him. His narcissistic abuse is a endless vicious loop with someone else always at fault and him the injured party. It is exhausting simply to be in the same house with him, let alone trying to protect yourself. 

Narcissists take boundaries as an insult

Narcissists think they control others. They demand a say in stuff that isn't their business. And enmeshed narcissistic parents take this nuclear. Because they view children as goods and chattel. They don't parent, they possess. The child must do and be whatever the parents says he must do or be with not thought of his own. So if the child, even in adulthood, says no to a narcissistic parent, the parent becomes enraged that his "property" has denied him his "rights." Narcissists tolerate limits being set about as well as they'd accept the car suddenly refusing to transport them. 

Narcissists see your boundaries as a challenge

As well as being arrogant and entitled, narcissists are belligerent, antagonistic and disagreeable trouble-makers. They start problems where none exist. So not only are they unreasonably offended by other people's boundaries, they see them as hurdles to be overcome, fences to be jumped as it were. Whatever you put sanctions on will suddenly become the thing they must have. The thing you ask them not to do will be the very thing they do. Much better advice is give them no feedback to exploit. 

Narcissists exploit your vulnerabilities

They pick at your raw spots until they bleed. They ping exposed nerves. They mock and jibe and say outrageously insulting and contemptuous things. They heckle you about things you are sensitive about. Then gaslight you that you are too sensitive. And it's actually not just things you personally would be sensitive about. Things that would bother anyone and CERTAINLY the narcissist if he was treated this way. They like to rile people and see them unsettled, especially their children. They provoke and provoke until you crack and then shame you for cracking. 

Boundary setting is a contradiction

So the theory behind boundary setting is that you create this invisible wall to protect yourself. You say what you will and won't tolerate and then you enforce boundaries by doing whatever it is you said you will or won't do if the untolerated behavior occurs. Which is all kind of nebulous to start with. And certainly isn't simple and cut and dried. Because you can't tell them what to do, only what you will do if they do it. But the whole reason for setting boundaries is kind to control other people.  Just the term "tolerate" implies intolerable action on someone else's part. But what you end up doing is, still, amending your own behavior to suit them. He goes on a rampage, you leave the house. He still calls the shots. And often you can't even do the thing you need to do to police these mythical boundaries. He's working on your car so you CAN'T leave. You have kids relying on you. What are you supposed to do? Walk everyone to the library in the pouring rain to avoid his rage, just so you can say you enforced your boundaries? (Been there, done that.) 

"You don't build fences unless someone else is trespassing."

Explaining your boundaries will ensure they're violated

You tell the narcissist what your boundaries are and you can be sure he'll sabotage it. You just played right into his hand and fed him the information. And you made more work for yourself. You've put the time into laying out a plan and communicating it and now, after he's made damn sure you can't follow through, will scold you for not keeping your promise. With a narcissist, it's best NOT to show your hand. Just do whatever it is you need to. 

Boundary setting with narcissists is counterproductive

Again, you aren't telling the person you set boundaries with, what to do. You're saying what you'll will do. Which as I explained above is often impossible. But let's take a simpler example: "I don't answer the phone after 8 pm." You're not telling them not to call, you're just sort of hinting that you won't answer. I say hinting because the reason you set the boundary was probably because they called too late. And instead of saying "quit calling" because God forbid we tell someone to knock it off, we have to find a way to sugarcoat it. Because remember, it's all about how you handle it,  never what they do (said sarcastically, that's another piece of tommyrot advice). But it won't matter how backhandedly you say it, they won't respect it anyway.  They will do exactly what you've wishy-washily hinted they not do just to make you break your own boundary. They will keep on calling till you answer the damn phone. 

Boundary setting advice is victim shaming

And bloody patronizing advice at that. It suggests that none of the abuse and violations would occur if victim would just "stand up for herself" or "grow a pair." Which just contradicts the advice because you can't control what someone does. No matter how tall you stand. You cannot make someone stop hurting you. You can only hit them harder or stay out of their way. Setting boundaries they won't respect is just more nonsense homework for the victim and does nothing to address the aggressor. 

Better advice to narcissistic abuse victims

• Say nothing. 
• Don't give yourself away. 
• Stay cool. 
• Grey rock (this is only a temporary fix for bad situations. It won't make them stop and you can't stay a rock forever). 
• Don't share vulnerabilities. 
• Don't ask them to do or not to do something if it's important to you. They'll just do the opposite. 
• Don't tell them how you feel. They don't care and they've proved it. Healthy people don't need to be told something obviously hurtful is hurtful. 
• Find an outlet or hobby to help vent the frustration. 

Narcissism behind momfluencer and Duggar parents

 

Hello my friends. Today I'm working to heal childhood trauma from narcissistic parent abuse by sharing what it's like to live with arrogant, entitled, remorseless, manipulative people. I can't take you back in time, but I can give examples of narcissistic parents in the media who behave like mine did. Not actor portrayals, actual parents like some of the social  media "momfluencers" and reality TV stars Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar. It probably didn't take the "Shiny Happy People" docu for most people to see that the Duggars are very narcissistic, despite Michelle Duggar's famed modesty.  

The celebrity narcissist parent cult

I'm not saying that every parent who has a YouTube channel or vlog is arrogant. But it's kind of hard to find examples who aren't. As well as social media "momfluencers" You could almost say it's a job description for celebrity parents. It comes with the territory. Just the term social media "influencer" or reality TV star screams vanity. You have to have pretty cast iron self-esteem to believe people should listen to or watch you. Or that you even say things worth hearing. I'm not talking here about specific niche parenting influencers  My daughter is a lactation/postpartum consultant who specializes in nutrition for moms. I mean the ones who just riff about whatever they feel like and call it educational.

Narcissist parents exploit kids

You could say that simply putting your child online is child exploitation and you'll get no argument from me. You could say that anyone who shares their every family moment on social media is a narcissist.  Still no argument. The fact that the Duggar family has forced their kids into a reality TV show proves their arrogance to me Narcissists exploit anything and anyone that gets them what they crave: pity, attention, status, narcissistic supply. 

Narcissistic parents exploit their kids suffering

But then there's another level: the exploitative narcissistic parents who exploit their children's suffering for narcissistic supply. The Duggar family is now in it's second generation exploiting kids with Josh Duggar and Joe Duggar. They've put their families through hell that they will never live down, just like Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar put their children through hell that led them to these actions. And the older siblings (except maybe Jana Duggar) are milking the family drama to build their own celebrity status. The whole family makes sure to keep their irrelevant faces in the media. 

Narcissistic parents monetize tragedy 

I'm thinking of  social media influencer Kelly Hopton-Jones who ran her child over and then monetized it in a social media post. What highlights the narcissism isn't the accident. It wasn't the fact that she is a self-styled "momfluencer" although the irony isn't lost. And a valid question has been asked whether she wasn't paying attention because she was posting at the time of the accident. The self-centeredness is shown by the fact that she leveraged of it for attention, pity and funds. The post she wrote was all about her. And the cherry on top was another momfluencer Emilie Kiser, whose child had drowned, chiming in with what she called sympathy. But what looked very much like turning the camera back on herself. So cashing in on  a parent cashing in on her child's injury. 

The "celebrity" addiction

I'm not talking about the addiction we have to following celebrities. I mean the outrageous things people will do to become "celebrities." Including harming your children. I'm not suggesting either Kelly Hopton-Jones or Emilie Kiser did anything intentional. But I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd never heard of either of them until their kids were hurt/killed. And I'm also not saying either of them weren't sad or vulnerable at the time they made the post about it. It's the timing. And the "me, me, me" ness of the post. Quite frankly, it reads like someone who's trying to convince themselves and us they feel guilty. It reads like she is more concerned about how she is perceived than what she actually did. And the subtle yet unmistakable gaslighting. Which is exactly how a narcissist parent operates. 

The gaslighting DARVO tactic

The Duggars play this one to perfection! They DARVO (deny responsibility, accuse and attack, reverse victim and offender). It's the "liberal media's" fault their son molested children. With Hopton-Jones, the gaslighting DARVO is little harder to spot. And it may be a shock or trauma response. She keeps referring to her hitting her son as an accident/mistake. That's the gaslighty part. The fact is that neither parent was paying attention to the child or to the car warning system show and that she apparently didn't even look in the mirror, is more careless than mistake. She keeps saying how if only "things had gone differently." As if this was out of her control. She describes how she feels guilty but shouldn't. Well, that is sort of what you do. You are supposed to feel guilty. It reads more like self-defense than confession.